Isms, schisms...well, that's the way it is in the world of the Occult nowadays - and has been since the advent of the male-dominated Religions. Following on Amy's discussion, and agreeing in essence with the sentiment that truth comes out of listening to other's opinions and then , having all of the relevant facts at one's disposal, making up one's own mind about which "current" one resonates with personally, can only be for the greater good.

Over the years I have made no secret or bones about the differences between Satanism and pagan spirituality, and having been expelled from Pagan Space because of it - the mods there are incredibly biased and do not hesitate to interfere where they deem it necessary - I made a little video all about these differences and , although most of my videos have been banned in many countries, I had the idea that perhaps centuries of ignorance and bias against genuine nature-based pagan spirituality due to deliberate mis-identification with Satanism could be resolved.

Satanism is not pagan spirituality, as Satanism arose from Christianity. The Biblical Devil - well, the New Testament Devil, has never and will never be worshiped by genuine pagans. Pagan spirituality is much older than Satanism; and pre-patriarchal peoples had no concept of an all-powerful Devil who would evidently delight in making our lifetimes full of misery and then, have the power to torture us long after we have departed from this current lifetime. Pagans do not live in fear, nor teach fear - which to me was always the big comparative difference between male-dominated religions and Goddess oriented spirituality, where all life, especially the lives of animals, is sacred.

I posted this here as I enjoy the opportunity to discuss spiritual matters among my peers - so please feel free to join in, even if you are perhaps one of those compromised individuals who can't help but be incredibly nasty on a personal level whenever a contrary opinion is put out there. 

At least I know that on this site, I won't be expelled by moderators who can't handle opposing opinions.

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Hi Zephy, Actually wasn't Lavey an atheist?  People actually have misconceptions about satanists, and demons for that matter.  And many satanist sects are actually atheist.  The ones's that do worship Satan, are not as evil as people think.  It's more a case of looking out for themselves first. 

     JUst try to find a demon discussion for my demons den that isn't christian based.

Hi Linda-everyone's an individual so I,m not blanket discriminating anyone. I'm just really sick and tired of Satanism being linked with pagan spirituality so I made the video to open up the old can-o worms and make ignorant people aware of the fact that pagans don't do the same sort of things and though often the same Deities are venerated by both pagans and Satanists, these are two very different paths to walk.

"In the creed of the Dervish, and of all who adventure into that realm of nature which is closed to philosophy and open to magic, there are races in the magnitude of space unseen as animacules in the world of a drop. For the tribes of the drop, science has it's microscope. 

Of the hosts of yon azure Infinite magic gains sight....of these races, some are wholly indifferent to man, some benign to him, and some deadly hostile"

An excerpt from Doreen Valiente's book, "An ABC of Witchcraft Past and Present".

That's my view of "demons", namely that there are many races "out there", which aren't evil necessarily, just different to humans. Many of the low-level spirits are controllable by a magician.

 Every time I bring up the differences between Satanism and paganism I invariably am accused of being biased towards Christianity, or that I am singing Christian lyrics. But my agenda is simple - because witches are still being persecuted especially in Africa, due to the basic misidentification with Satanism, it's time to enlighten people who don't know.

I find it odd that Lilith is part of the Satanist pantheon, as Lilith is not at all a Satanist - Lilith is definitely not subservient to some big wanker with horns in a mythical Christian tale of woe.

It get's tricky though, and it depends on what research you do.  Apparently from a christian point of view, anything that isn't christian is considered pagan.  And, that includes, Buddhists, Hindu,Sikh,and wicca, not to mention witch, which in my book isn't quite the same thing.

     And yes, it's hard to get past the christian research.

        As I understand it there is light and dark witches, and Lilith falls somewhere in between.  Christians didn't like her because she wasn't subservient to

It is kind of amusing to see people label pagan paths as satanic.  Christians forget satan was created by God to be the "adversary" which I think is Old Testament.  His job is/was to tempt Christians.   Veering off just a of my peeves is "the devil made me do it!"  No he just sets the stage for one to make choices within/on that stage. One time a rabbi told me that Jehovah was actually satan.  

Just gotta talk about the horns.  Horns everywhere in pagan images.  Another reason why pagans are associated with the devil is because the devil is depicted with horns.  A lot of pagan images of whoever has horns.  A very good effort by the early church to devilize pagans and it worked.  Horns on the forehead pointing forward means psychic.  So much was stolen by the early church from pagans.  Sacred spaces to how rituals are conducted and even holidays snatched. 

Of course I have told my Christians friends this and they looked at me like I was off my rocker lol.  Cracks me up.

It all began in a time as yet unknown by most in the world of today - a more civilized age, when Nature was God. Every couple of months, at the changing of the seasons, Horus, the Oak King, would gather all of his powers together and challenge his natural opposite, Set, to hand-to-hand combat. The winner would take all - and the battles, which would last forever and a day, were all refereed by the Mother Goddess, a most beautiful Lady, the divine Isis.

Often, challenges which did not necessarily involve physical acts of violence were also set up, such as contests of intelligence and will-power. Eventually, though, as the contests were quite one-sided, due to the interference of the Sun, Moon and Stars; and partially because Horus cut off the head of Isis in a fit of rage at losing a contests somewhere down the line and couldn't bear to see Set the Holly King win; the old gods decided to set up a Heavenly Tribunal to decide the ultimate winner, as even the patience of the gods had worn thin after 2.8 billion years of human existence on the planet, with the endless contests ending up in a stalemate..

In the Heavenly Tribunal Horus was eventually adjudged to be the winner, and as his prize, he won the unified throne of Egypt. As compensation, because so many of the gods, including Ra wanted Set to be the winner, but were overruled in the end, Set was given to two goddesses, who were of the Western Semitic Hyksos people.

The Goddess Anat, who became the Great Goddess of the Canaanites, an Ophidian nation who venerated the Serpent as Goddess (Pre-Israelite Hebrews had the Dragon twisted around a pole as their totem) and the Goddess Astarte, also called Ashtoreth, the goddess whom King Solomon followed after, are the equal and opposite reflections of Set. Now YHWH is also wed to Anat, and that makes for a strange co-incidence; just as devotees of Set refrain from eating pork, even nowadays.

Set, Sutekh, Seth; Lord of Chaos,God of the Desert; Saturn, Siva, El ~ YHWH. What's in a name? Ea, Enki, Typhon, Apophis; Lord of Storms and Beloved of Kings.

Does this sound like Horus? Well, neither does it sound like El or Bel . More like Antewy, at least to me who knows nothing.

Woden or Osiris, aka. Robin Hood

Loki or Set; aka. The Holly King

Asherah, Lady of the Sacred Groves, together with.................. and .........

Love all the info..

How come when you say this, it makes sense?  I read it somewhere else, and nada...

I find that when you start looking for all of the things in common with deities and people instead of all the things that appear to make us different, then it starts making sense, if that makes sense :)

I feel like I'm being stared at.  lol   Zephy, it makes sence, then again I tend to think like you.


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